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Questions for John Daspit Moderators: Jump to page : 1 Now viewing page 1 [50 messages per page]
Barking Dog and Land Use-> Landowner's Forum	Message format

James

Posted 4/7/2004 9:48 PM (#1081)
Subject: Questions for John Daspit

Veteran

Posts: 109

Might as well start a new thread with this. (Cleanbiker = Daspit).

Cleanbiker - 4/7/2004 3:48 AM
"My map".... Uh huh. Yeah…… ROTFL.!!!!
Got to be the best laugh I've had in weeks!
I'd been trying to figure out how you might have gotten hold of one of my maps, and I
was convinced that it must have been from someone at the Forest Service meeting I
attended a while back. The one where I emailed them a copy of the map beforehand, and
brought a stack of printed versions to hand out at the meeting! SURE, feel FREE to send
it to the Forest Service! I'm sure they could use some extra copies!

Good. I'd like to know if this is the same map that has been circulating around Jamestown with your name on it. The one I have is a modified version of a National Geographic map of the Raymond Quadrangle. I'd post it here, but I know DC is very respectful of copyrights, so he probably would not allow it. At the bottom it says "Printed from TOPO, (c)2000 National Geographic..." So I will describe it in words.

You show the trails you ride on it bright red. Several of these go through private property (gated and fenced). Some cross National Forest land but are not legal for motorized travel. Some trails do not show up on the USFS maps because they only appeared in the last couple of years.

For example, one of your trails is accessed by cutting across the Morck property near Gresham. Then it cuts across the gated and fenced Greenlee property near Cannon Mountin (in section 11). Then it follows an old ditch (known as the "Golden Rule"). That ditch was never a road or trail. It was for getting water around the mountain and it is privately owned where it crosses private property (maybe you noticed the metal flumes when you were using it for a motorcycle trail). Then your map shows that you ride along the western boundary of Cal-Wood, where there was never any trail until about three years ago.

Further north, your map shows that you ride along a trail that mountain bikers call "Gumby". According to the District Ranger, that trail is closed to motorized travel, and motorcyclists have gotten tickets for riding on it. Your trail network also cuts through the private land of the Tallman family. Glenn Tallman put up a gate next to his house in Riverside to keep motorized trespassers off his land, but you show the trail going through his property anyway.

Another trail across private land, "BArking Dog" you show in blue. You have a label that says "230 trees (illegally) cut down to block road".

Is this the same map you gave the the FS?

Cleanbiker - 4/7/2004 3:48 AM
Not that it seems to be anywhere near the top of your priority list, but in case you're
interested, here's the _actual truth_ about me and the things I know about this area:
1) I always ride on established trails.
2) When a trail gets officially closed, I no longer ride on it.
3) I have never, nor would I ever, just take off in a random direction off-trail, or try to create a new trail where there was not one before.

In your e-mail to Vernon Brandt, posted on Monday, July 23, 2001 1:10 PM, you say:
"As you probably know,
The road above Jamestown about
a mile, Balarat Road, which used to lead to
a great 4wd and dirt bike riding area, has been
CLOSED to motor vehicles by the
Boulder County Board of Commisioners.
There is a new gate at the top of the
road by Cal-Wood ranch."

After more discussion about the closure, you say:
"If I continue to ride my dirtbike in this area,
(which I most likely will till I have a real reason not to)
what can/would they do to me?? Thanks, JD"

According to people that know the area, the trail along the western boundary of Cal-Wood (which bypasses the county commissioners closure, as shown on your map) appeared in the summer of 2001!

Cleanbiker - 4/7/2004 3:48 AM
-If there is a gate or fence with a Private Property, Keep Out sign on it, I will turn back
and go a different way.
If there's no gates, fences, or signs, and especially if I see that there are already some
tracks there, I'll keep going ahead.
Simple as that.

So are you saying you've never used the new cut-off trail along the Cal-Wood fence? Why is it on your map?

Cleanbiker - 4/7/2004 3:48 AM
FACT: I have made an annual trip, (and ridden or hiked it dozens of times a year on some
years) from the year 1976 (and occasionally by motorcycle since the late 1980s) until the
year 2000 (when I knew it would be the last time, not because of any official decree, but
because I'd heard about some "discussions" -or was it "arrangements?"- that the
landowners were having up there);
A trip riding from the bottom of the Lefthand riding area parking lot, all the way to
Raymond/Riverside. All dirt. With the exception of the cable and stolen sign incidents
mentioned in my previous post, on the ENTIRE ROUTE there was never a single sign, or
gate, or fence, and usually no people. HUNDREDS of rides, dirt and mountain bike. The
few hikers or horseback riders you might come across were usually friendly and nice.

I think in the olden days of the 1970s there was an unspoken rule that it was o.k. to cross private propety on foot, but that motorcycles (ATVs were almost non-existant then) were a no-no. When you started riding your motorcycle on these trails in the late 1980s, landowners objected and that's when the signs and fences appeared. It seems you have nobody to blame but yourself.

Cleanbiker - 4/7/2004 3:48 AM
But this bullshit about the same handful of landowners who had 4 or 5
seasonal cabins, and had been harassing the traditional users of the area (mountain bikers
and hikers as well, multi-use) without ever DOING anything about it like put up a real
gate or fence-- you know why they didn't, because they own only a small parcel of that
huge tract of land, and legally according to Colorado LAW (proscriptive public easement
if 20 years or more uninterrupted use as a public road or trail) they couldn't. On the
back side of Fairview Peak, they had a gate at the end of one road toward a cabin. Why
not just move the gate a hundred yards further down and close off that trail (the
connecting one over to Raymond/Riverside)?? BECAUSE it's way past their
PROPERTY LINE, and in some cases even if the land on both sides of the road is owned
by the same person, the road, if "traditionally used" for over 20 years, is still public. You
can discuss the fine points of it as much as you like, but it just seems to make sense to
me. If a road has been in use by the public for a very long time, you can't just up and
decide that you're going to close it because you bought some land there, or have owned
the land for many years but then up and decide to close it. If you could, then it wouldn't
be too long before there would be NO public off-highway routes any more. But that's
what you all want it seems, and the way things are going in Boulder County that's how
it's going to end up, if you're allowed to continue getting away with such actions as the
Lefthand tree downing atrocity.

But the traditional users of these trails were hikers. Mountain bikers weren't around in the 1970's. Nobody tried to ride these trails on a motorcycle until about 15 years ago. Who made the rule that hiking trails across private propety should be open for "multiple use"?! It really is the motorized users that got the landowners pissed off.

Cleanbiker - 4/7/2004 3:48 AM
By Colorado Law (and by common sense, something not so common nowadays)
we are SUPPOSED to have these rights. That doesn't matter to some
people, who in this case (Lefthand) figured out a way to get around that. --By talking
someone at the FS into changing the ALREADY POSTED maps of the riding area on the
new information kiosks, and bulldozing a few acres of our National Forest, blocking
access to over 1000 acres of it!! First it's Barking Dog (hundreds of trees downed a
couple years ago, within shouting distance from Lefthand, and ironically in "big lie"
fashion, suggested that OHVers did it!), now this heinous crime that your "heroes" did...
at the rate it's going there's not going to be ANY forest LEFT before too long!!

There is no Colorado law that gives you the right to ride your motorcycle through private property. The U.S. constitution protects private property as a fundamental right.

Cleanbiker - 4/7/2004 3:48 AM
How anyone could condone this kind of eco-TRASHING, essentially destroying a big chunk
of the beautiful, wonderful forest that I once enjoyed, much less calling them heroes, then
implying that it's ME and OHVers in general who are doing the damage is so hypocritical
and sick it makes me want to puke. It's beyond my imagination how anyone could ever
get so twisted and screwed up in the head.
I've been riding, mountain biking, and hiking a long, long time. Just because you or
the people you associate with are not familiar with a particular trail does not mean that it
is "new". I've been told about some trails that I've looked for without success for years,
and then one day I'll find the "secret turnoff" that's almost invisible unless you know
where to look.

I have seen first hand the damage that motorized use does to the forest. What started as your "secret turnoff" soon gets discovered by the jeep clubs, and then it's all over. I saw the damage on Fairview Peak, and it is minor compared to the damage and destruction done by the four wheelers.

Cleanbiker - 4/7/2004 3:48 AM
I have personally made more than one side-trip to the top of a hill to get a cellphone
signal to call and report people for cutting across meadows, leaving their trash or broken
parts behind, or a still-burning campfire. I once had to stop about a dozen jeepers and
dirtbikers who were about to beat the shit out of this guy who had been trying to impress
his girlfriend by taking his dunebuggy and tearing up the wet side of a never-traveled hill.
I can guarantee you that if that same group of guys happened to come along and see you
or any of your "heroes" knocking down hundreds of trees in their (our) National Forest,
don't come asking me to talk them out of it (i.e. expressing their anger in a more
"physical" way), because I doubt that I could, and I wouldn't want to be responsible for
what they might do.

That scares me. How do you know they aren't knocking down trees on their own property as part of an approved forest management plan. Most of the owners in the area have such plans. You are claiming that the trails through these properties are public, so you seem to be condoning violence against landowners for managing their own forest resources when that activity happens to conflict with your desire for recreation. This is a frightening statement.

Cleanbiker - 4/7/2004 3:48 AM
Oh, excuse me if I didn't say "greater Jamestown area" instead. I happen to live where I
do now for the last 8 years, before that I lived above Ward for several years, and before
that in the middle of Buckingham Park east of Jamestown for even more years.
Currently "technically" (and actually) a citizen of the Town of Jamestown. Lived in this
area SINCE 1976! You're the one who seems so fond of playing word games, and all I
am saying plain and simple is that I'm about as "local" as they get, so your goofy-assed
claim of "he just has a PO Box there and is an outsider" is just stuff THAT YOU MADE
UP. Whether you call it fabrications, fantasy, hear-say, or just outright LIES, you've still
got the same thing--
Me, totally dumbfounded and amazed and wondering why anyone would go out of their
way to tell other people this bullshit about l'il ole me.

Sorry, I've never heard the expression "greater Jamestown area". I didn't know there was one. I thought Jametown was a tiny little town.

Why would anybody say things about you? If you respected their property rights, maybe they would respect you.

Cleanbiker - 4/7/2004 3:48 AM
You seem to spend a major portion of your day posting to this BBD and other places
I've seen. Maybe you need to find a hobby that's less "anti-this" and "anti-that", less accusational,
confrontational and argumentative, and more peaceful and cooperative. In the meantime,
would ya please just back off with the rumor mongering, assumption making, and
accusations about people (esp. ME) and things that you know a whole lot less about than
you think you do? Everybody's got their own story and their own point of view, and
maybe if you'd begin to try to treat others with a little respect, more of an open mind, and
reserve judgment (and comment) until you really have all the facts in (instead of filling in
the gaps with your random, and usually negative imaginations), then you might find that
other people will start to respect you more. (or at all, as the case may be).

I'd like to quote from another one of your e-mails that has been floating around among your neighbors in "the greater Jamestown area". This might give you some insight:

From: daspit@lasp.colorado.edu
Date: Monday, July 23, 2001 1:10 PM
To: vernonbrandt@aboutpubliclands.com

"I can accept their reasoning about the
water quality and the closure of
Ward Road, but this has no apparent reason,
other than the Jamestown eco-nazis having
talked (or bought) their way with the commisioners
again. An excellent loop of about 10 miles,
some of it 4WD and some of it single-track, that
I've dirtbiked and ATVd on for years, is now
more than 75 percent closed according to their
new "map" of what is and
is not allowable for motor vehicles."

From: john.daspit@colorado.edu
Date: Thursday, August 16, 2001 12:19 AM
To: gwking@senior-express.com

"So apparently I have to break the "law" and
be made to feel like a criminal on 0.1 miles of
my NEXT PLANNED RIDE. OR make a NEW
trail through the woods to connect it up."

Sound familiar? I have a lot more. Care to respond?

James

Posted 4/8/2004 11:03 PM (#1089 - in reply to #1081)
Subject: RE: Questions for John Daspit

Veteran

Posts: 109

See the other thread (Papa Pilrgim, etc.) for Daspit's full response. Here is my response to him.

Cleanbiker - 4/8/2004 11:16 AM
No, actually the one I gave the Forest service has those trails on it,
as well as additional ones.

It is interesting that these maps show trails that the USFS does not show. The law is very clear about where you can and cannot go. According to the Boulder District Ranger's travel managment plan, you are not allowed to take a motorized vehicle off the routes that they have designated. If you used GPS with your motorcycle along the trails that are not part of the USFS travel management plan, then you broke the law. You also trespassed on the Greenlee and Morck properties, which are posted and fenced.

Cleanbiker - 4/8/2004 11:16 AM
WRONG. Lots of people I know have used that trail MANY years before 2001 (and would testify to that fact). It's not
surprising that these supposed "people who know the area" would have some
ulterior motives involved in their perception of what happened when.

I have spoken to people who have owned land there for decades, and the trail is brand new. There was never a trail along the fence line north from the Cal-Wood dry camp before. That trail was created in the summer of 2001. John Oppenlander was in charge of the USFS travel management plan mapped the trails in that area. His 2000 map does not show this trail, because it was not there.

Cleanbiker - 4/8/2004 11:16 AM
WHAT signs? WHAT fences? I can get DOZENS of people to attest to the fact that THERE WERE NONE. If any ever were actually put up (which I doubt, from the frequency of my visits there), then obviously nobody bothered to
take the time necessary to maintain them, whatsoever.

The Greenlee property where your map shows you have trespassed has been fenced and posted for decades. Other owners have put up signs and fences after motorcylists started invading their private property in the late 1980's. Like I said, in earlier years it was just accepted that these trails were off limits to motorcycles. Most people didn't think they needed to put up a sign to say what everyone considered to be common sense: you don't ride a motorcycle along an irrigation ditch or a hiking trail.

Cleanbiker - 4/8/2004 11:16 AM
I am not condoning violence against ANYONE. Ask anyone who knows me,
unless backed up against a wall, (--very "not advisable"), I'm about the most pacificistic person you'll ever meet.
I am simply stating a possible scenario from what I've seen in my experience
with most off-road enthusiasts. If they see someone out trashing the place
that they love and enjoy, they will most likely do something about it (immediately).

Well if you are on private property and the owners is knocking down his own trees, you are not backed up against a wall. You said you would condone violence against a landowner for knocking down trees.

Cleanbiker - 4/8/2004 11:16 AM
When things are TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT (a popular method of
the propoganda style of your ilk) it makes it a lot harder to
hear the IRONIC tone of the above statement. Look it up in
your Funk and Wagnalls. Irony.
The main point I was trying to make is that-- if you start closing down
all the roads and trails, and then more and more people have less and less places
to go ride, it's a lot more likely that SOMEONE (not me) is going to
try to make some new ones. 2 + 2 = 4

O.K. Here is the entire context:

#######
From: daspit@lasp.colorado.edu
Date: Monday, July 23, 2001 1:10 PM
To: vernonbrandt@aboutpubliclands.com
Subject: Balarat Rd.

As you probably know,
The road above Jamestown about
a mile, Balarat Road, which used to lead to
a great 4wd and dirt bike riding area, has been
CLOSED to motor vehicles by the
Boulder County Board of Commisioners.
There is a new gate at the top of the
road by Cal-Wood ranch. The road
into the area from Raymond-Riverside
(near the Peak-to-Peak Hwy.)
is the only way in now, and it would not
surprise me at all if that is next on their list to close.
I heard that some efforts by your organization
to re-open "Barking Dog" trail, as well as
the folks in Jamestown, were contributing
factors to this closure. How can this be
legal for them to do?
I can accept their reasoning about the
water quality and the closure of
Ward Road, but this has no apparent reason,
other than the Jamestown eco-nazis having
talked (or bought) their way with the commisioners
again. An excellent loop of about 10 miles,
some of it 4WD and some of it single-track, that
I've dirtbiked and ATVd on for years, is now
more than 75 percent closed according to their
new "map" of what is and
is not allowable for motor vehicles.
Yet another one of my favorite riding areas
is now HISTORY unless SOMEONE does something
about it. Hiking and mountain biking only. I'm
really getting tired of seeing NEW signs that say that.
I figure that by the time I retire in a few years
there will be nowhere open to ride any more.
PLEASE, if there's anything you can do to help...
Also, let me know if there's anything that I can
do to help you.

John Daspit
Jamestown Colorado

p.s. If I continue to ride my dirtbike in this area,
(which I most likely will till I have a real reason not to)
what can/would they do to me?? Thanks, JD
#######

In the full context it still sounds to me that you are serious about planning to illegally ride your dirt bike in the area, even though you know it is closed. Does anybody else hear anything that faintly resembles an IRONIC tone? I certainly don't.

I think it is interesting that in this message, you say that there is a new gate by Cal-Wood Ranch. You say that now the only way into the area (in July, 2001) is from Raymond-Riverside. But what about that trail along the boundary of Cal-Wood, that you say has been there for many years? Why would you be upset in July of 2001 about the county road closure if such a convenient bypass already existed. Why would you say that you had to go to Raymond-Riverside if you could take that little bypass route? You need to get your story straight.

Cleanbiker - 4/8/2004 11:16 AM
You have already taken up too much of my time with your drivel.
Apparently nothing I can say is going to keep you from spinning
your convenient fictions, or from continuing to indulge in
your little hobby of rabble-rousing, misinformation, and slander.
Rant, rant, rant, rant, rant away.

Well now I've quoted you in context, and I'd like you to explain why in 2001 you said one thing, but now you are saying something else about the existence of a trail that everyone in the area agrees did not exist until that summer. I think your own words have damaged your credibility much more than any of my ranting could do.

James

Posted 4/9/2004 8:51 AM (#1093 - in reply to #1081)
Subject: RE: Questions for John Daspit

Veteran

Posts: 109

See the Pilgrim thread for Daspit's full posting.

Cleanbiker - 4/9/2004 12:41 AM

Now, how'd I know you were going to do that? Post a private email that was one in a series of several emails, a personal private email that you did not have permission to post? (has internet law caught up with the times yet, hmmm.....?)

First you accuse me of quoting you out of context, then of posting private e-mail without your permission. Are you really foolish enough to think that I need your permisson? Everybody knows that once you send an e-mail message, it is out of your control. Perhaps you should take it up with the person you sent it to.

If you think there is still not enough context, I'll post the entire series. I'll wait for your permission, because I'm a nice guy. Personally, I think there was plenty of context.

Cleanbiker - 4/9/2004 12:41 AM
I've been trying to figure you out, "James", ang guess what, I just found out that JAMES=MARK BOSLOUGH! Imagine that!!!
When someone told me, I went D'OH!!, DuH, D'OH!!!!

Good try. Duh. Of course, James could be any number of people whose land you have trespassed on or damaged. This is about anyone in the "greater Jamestown area" according to your map of the illegal trail network you are promoting. Guess again.

Cleanbiker - 4/9/2004 12:41 AM
"James", (MARK, ... Knobby??) wrote:

Keep guessing!! You're getting warm.

Cleanbiker - 4/9/2004 12:41 AM
"Why would you say that you had to go to Raymond-Riverside if you could take that little bypass route?"

Answer:
Because, as I said before, I don't like to ride where there are fences or signs, or places that have been officially closed.

Well now we are making progress. You have just admitted that the cutoff is illegal, and that you have ridden there. It doesn't matter that you "don't like" to ride where it is illegal. You do it. You think you are above the law.

Cleanbiker - 4/9/2004 12:41 AM
Here's some more FACTS:
1) It is still legal to enter via Raymond/Riverside, where a very nice network several miles of legal trails and 4WD roads provides a very pleasant weekend outing. There is no gate there (when does "stretching the truth" become lies??? When "James/Mark/Knobby" gets hold of it!)

You have a very interesting but transparent debating style. What are you talking about?

The fact is that in Riverside, Glenn Tallman erected a gate on his private property. Now that he is dead, you are circulating a map showing that the private drive past his widow's house as a public road. This elderly woman has no way to defend her property, and you are encouraging people to use it for recreation. That's despicable.

Whether or not there is a LEGAL way in from this area, I don't know, but the Tallman route is illegal. Even if you could get in, the "Gumby Trail" is closed by the District Ranger to motorized trabel. It may be a very pleasant weekend outing for people who don't mind breaking the law. I suspect that is part of the pleasure for you.

Cleanbiker - 4/9/2004 12:41 AM
2) There are no gates or fences anywhere near Gresham townsite except for one small plot near the old irrigation ditch you mentioned, and the ditch is outside that fenced area, has no signs, fences, or gates across it, and never has.

The Greenlee property that you have been cutting across is 160 acres. It was gated and fenced before you moved to the "greater Jamestown area".

Cleanbiker - 4/9/2004 12:41 AM
3) The 4WD road that enters at Raymond/Riverside, tha goes up to Miller Rock, that goes down to the wooden sign at Ceran St Vrain Creek that says- 4WD ROAD AHEAD... is on all the old maps, and used to go all the way through to Overland Road (west of Jamestown) until a landowner over there blocked that end of the (LEGAL) 4WD road with a bunch of tree stumps. It is STILL A LEGAL 4WD ROUTE past the Gresham townsite, in fact, I think I'm going to ride it this weekend!! Anyone want to join me????

I'll ask the county sheriff and the the Boulder District Ranger if they would like to be there. Thanks for the tip.

Cleanbiker

Posted 9/14/2006 3:12 AM (#1766 - in reply to #1081)
Subject: RE: Questions for John Daspit

Member

Posts: 30

"James" wrote:
The Greenlee property that you have been cutting across is 160 acres. It was gated and fenced before you moved to the "greater Jamestown area".

Cleanbiker (JD) 4/9/04 12:41AM:

3) The 4WD road that enters at Raymond/Riverside, tha goes up to Miller Rock, that goes down to the wooden sign at Ceran St Vrain Creek that says- 4WD ROAD AHEAD... is on all the old maps, and used to go all the way through to Overland Road (west of Jamestown) until a landowner over there blocked that end of the (LEGAL) 4WD road with a bunch of tree stumps. It is STILL A LEGAL 4WD ROUTE past the Gresham townsite, in fact, I think I'm going to ride it this weekend!! Anyone want to join me????

"James" replied:

I'll ask the county sheriff and the the Boulder District Ranger if they would like to be there. Thanks for the tip.

Cleanbiker (JD) replied 2.5 years later, on 9/14/2006 3:09AM:

*--> You can go ask the Forest Service rangers who were up there just a few months ago, installing numbered road and trail signs (i.e. Open To All Multiple-Use, Same As It Ever Was), with the little icons that say "OK for hikers, skiers, dirtbikes, ATVs, and 4X4s" on them, above the LEGAL entry at Raymond/Riverside, past Miller Rock, and all the way down and across the Ceran St. Vrain creek. Fact and fiction are so readily confused when personal agendas and ulterior motives are involved. You get the names right (Tallman, Greenlee, Cal-wood), but play fast and loose with the details (i.e. the truth). Amazing how just one small fact (i.e. the REALITY of those signs) can expose the twisted tangle of lies that some people convince themselves of (and, unfortunately, sometimes others) for what they really are--> a convenient fiction in the minds of a land-grubbing or misled feeble few. I suspect that you (and most of you reading this) have only seldom, or never actually BEEN to the places we're talking about, just to get out and explore and enjoy the place, (as I still do dozens of times a year), nor ever been to a Forest Service or Board of Commissioners meeting, as I have been to dozens of over the past several years. Really, you should get out more.
Well, it's been nice visiting. I hope that life has been treating you well. I only ended up back here when (as Jay Leno referred to on his show this evening,) I Googled my name, and this thread was the first link on the list. Got a good laugh outta that one! Kinda makes ya think, this'll probably still be somewhere out there in cyberspace longer than I will be on the planet.
Hopefully after I'm long gone, (or much sooner than that, I pray) we'll all have figured out the answer to Rodney King's question- "Can't we all just 'get along'"? For the sake of a better future for this planet, or any future at all, I sure hope so.
Bye for now,
Ahimsa,
JD (CB)
p.s. I _really_ enjoyed my ride up above Raymond/Riverside that day!

-----------
May All Beings Be Safe,
May All Beings Be Happy,
May All Beings Be at Peace.
-----------

Patriot

Posted 10/30/2006 8:03 AM (#1776 - in reply to #1081)
Subject: RE: Questions for John Daspit

I'm quite familiar with this area having explored in there for over 40 years. You two are talking about different roads. Cleanbiker, I do not know if you are intentionally obfuscating or pretending to misunderstand, or if you really don't understand.

The legal public roads have official USFS signs, like you say. The ones without USFS signs are on private property, and are closed to the public. A good example of this is the locked gate in Riverside. Nobody has challenged that landowner even though he only owns a few hundred feet of road between the end of USFS road 523 and the Middle St. Vrain road. You just can't go through without permission. Even though that couple hundred feet of road appears to be part of USFS 523, it is not. It is private land. There are a few other examples in the area.

To see where the private land is, get the US Forest Service Raymond Quad map (the one that says "Modified for the USDA Forest Service" in the upper right-hand corner. It is available at the Boulder Ranger district office up on Yarmouth. It shows both public and private roads. It is important to know which is which, and with this map you should be able to avoid the private property.

Windskipper

Posted 10/30/2006 5:35 PM (#1780 - in reply to #1081)
Subject: RE: Questions for John Daspit

Member

Posts: 36

RS2477 neverr applied to private stuff anyway, right? So whats the issue?

Patriot

Posted 10/30/2006 8:20 PM (#1782 - in reply to #1780)
Subject: RE: Questions for John Daspit

Well, not according to the law as it was written. Fortunatlely judges are interpreting the law in the way Congress intended it, and in a way that is consistent with the 5th Amendment. I'm not sure how they could interpret it any other way, but the offroad abusers have gone off the deep end in their lust for new places to play.

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